© Copyright 2007-2008 The Straight Path

NiceBlueIce: Jesus tells us we will know false prophets by their fruits. Meaning God offers mankind good gifts. So Jesus says if a prophet says he is sent by God its not his words that matter but his actions towards others.

 

RKC: A Prophet’s words matter…

 

Deuteronomy 18

19 And whoever will not give heed to my words which he shall speak in my name, I myself will require it of him.

20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.'

 

 

 

NiceBlueIce: Alot of false prophets are double tounged, they teach one thing but offer another. 

 

RKC: Not always.

 

 

 

NiceBlueIce: Like Jesus said if a prophet says God is merciful then all the prophet does must be merciful. Its the actions that tell us the truth about the person. God calls out those who are pleasing to him in actions they do his will not by mere words.  Any man can claim to Love God but if his own actions offend Gods will it cant be Love can it? Jesus teaches us to get beyond the appearances and get to the heart thats what matters. He says self righteous men change their appearance on the outside not the inside where in matters most. They might wear white robes to took Holy they think changing the physical appearance means something to God, but Gods looking at the heart,  This is what Jesus said they stand on the street corners to be seen by other men they will wear white robes to give the appearance they are Holy but its nothing but an appearance because under that nice clean robes their hearts are cold and ugly. That is why Jesus used the term wolves in sheep clothing. Pretending to be Holy by Looking Holy. He says they beat their chest and they recite words to make them look Like they are Holy. They use other mens past words to proove they are Holy, but others words mean nothing because they dont reveal Your heart but someone elses. Meaning they will use other mens words to make them look like they themselves are more then they are. So Jesus tells us not to be fooled by outer appearances and the words of a prophet but watch his own actoins because those actions reveal his true heart and nature and motives. 

 

RKC: Like Paul’s cancellations of eternal Laws in Jesus(p) name?

 

 

 

NiceBlueIce: Did Muhamed not brag that he was the greatest of prophets? Yes he did…

 

RKC: Doubt it.

 

Nearest and Furthest

The Messenger of God said, “Among those who are most dear to me, and who will be nearest to me on the day of resurrection, are those of you who are best in terms of character and morals. And those who are most despicable to me, and who will be furthest from me on the day of resurrection, are the prattlers, the braggarts, and the blowhards.”

 

The Wisdom of the Prophet: Sayings of the Muhammad

Translated by Thomas Cleary

Page 129

 

 

 

NiceBlueIce: …and you see real prophets humble themselves. They do not have a boasting bragging spirit. Abraham did not boast he repented and stated he was merely dust. He lowered himself to dust as a sinner.  Jesus washed the feet of his servants lowering himself. John the baptist the one jesus called the greatest of prophets ate locust and came out of desert in rags not riches.

 

RKC: Agreed.

 

 

Surah 31

18. "And swell not thy cheek (for pride) at men, nor walk in insolence through the earth; for Allah loveth not any arrogant boaster.

 

Surah 17

37. Nor walk on the earth with insolence: for thou canst not rend the earth asunder, nor reach the mountains in height.

 

 

 

NiceBlueIce: Muhamed did not humble himself before God…

 

RKC: Of course he did.

 

Of Humility

234. Humility and courtesy are acts of piety.

235. Verily God instructs me to humble and lowly and not proud; and that no one should oppress another.

237. Whoever is humble to men for God’s sake, may God exhault his eminence.

 

The Sayings of Muhammad

By Allama Sir Abdullah Al-Mamun Al-Suhrawardy

Page 87

 

 

 

NiceBlueIce: … he exhaulted himself in Gods name.

 

RKC: Exulted himself to what?

 

 

 

NiceBlueIce: He does not even have to follow the same rules as other men because he has told them hes better being a prophet…. He didnt have to follow any rules not the same rules his followers were under.

 

RKC: Which ones?

 

 

 

NiceBlueIce: Prophets are sent by God to serve men, but Men served Muhamed and did so in fear.

 

RKC: Who served Muhammad(p) out of “fear”?

 

 

 

NiceBlueIce: God existed Long before Muhamed yet Muhameds name has to be mentioned everytime you speak of God.  You have put him on equal grounds with God.

 

RKC: Muhammad(p), nor any man, is equal to the Father. What your talking about is what Christians do with Jesus(p).

 

 

 

NiceBlueIce: You can not say God is compassionate and merciful and go out on Killing Sprees,…

 

RKC: Muhammad(p) didn’t go on “killing sprees” in the mass murdering way, like your trying to present. Muhammad(p) led just wars against aggressive and oppressive groups in Arabia. Prophets in the Bible, such as Joshua(p) and David(p), did the same thing. Do you reject them as well? Why are their “killing sprees” accepted by Christians and not Muhammad’s(p)?

 

 

 

NiceBlueIce: …and to kill people whos only sin was never knowing God is even worse.

 

RKC: Example?

 

 

 

NiceBlueIce: See Jesus opinion was if Mankind Knew God they would serve God…

 

RKC: True.

 

 

 

NiceBlueIce: …and so if you did everything In Love then those who did not know God would want to serve the Same God out of the same Love.

 

RKC: The problem is people claim to love God (The Father) and choose to worship other things. That’s not giving the Father the love he should have.

 

 

 

NiceBlueIce: Muhamed killed men who did not know God,…

 

RKC: Agreed. If Muhammad’s(p) enemies knew God, they would not have been so aggressive towards him.

 

 

 

NiceBlueIce: and why would they (pagans) want to serve a God who seeked only to destroy them? 

 

RKC: They didn’t want to serve God. They wanted take away Arabia’s peace, security, freedom of religion, etc. For example…

 

“…they (pagans) first threatened the Medinans (Jews, Christians, & Muslims), in a letter addressed to ‘Abd Allah ibn Ubayy ibn Salul, to kill their males and enslave their females unless they expelled God’s Messenger from Medina.”

 

Prophet Muhammad as Commander

By M. Fethullah Gulen

Page 49

 

 

 

NiceBlueIce: In Islam they speak of Mercy but show none. 

 

RKC: Taken from thetruereligion.org: A Mercy to Mankind

 

“The famous conquest of Makkah is an event which shall be remembered for the justice and mercy which were shown that day. Even though he had the option to punish those who were guilty of oppressing the Muslims, Muhammed (saws) issued a general amnesty by which many people were forgiven. It was this behaviour which saw the amazing acceptance of Islam by almost the whole population of Makkah literally overnight.[25]”

 

 

 

NiceBlueIce: Muhamed and Jesus were in the same circumstance when a woman comitted adultry. Jesus offered forgiveness in God and Muhamed offered one death, Never even given a chance to repent or change for God. You can sit there and recite Muhameds false words of Mercy all you want but the truth came out in his actions and in all Muslims actions when they judge woman to death for sinning instead of letting then repent and be forgiven by God. 

 

RKC: This is my understanding. So I’d appreciate it if someone, who is familiar with the Hadith, would correct me if I am wrong. There are such things as forgeries in Hadith, so (1) this story may not be true. Although Sharia law perscribes death (probably based off this story), the Qur’an says,

 

Surah 24

2. The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.

3. Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry and but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever: nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman: to the Believers such a thing is forbidden.

 

Why was this not followed? Here may be why. I found a Hadith in Bukhari which says,

 

Bukhari - Volume 8, Book 82, Number 824

Narrated Ash-Shaibani:

I asked 'Abdullah bin Abi 'Aufa about the Rajam (stoning somebody to death for committing illegal sexual intercourse). He replied, "The Prophet carried out the penalty of Rajam," I asked, "Was that before or after the revelation of Surat-an-Nur?" He replied, "I do not know."

 

So, (2) its possible Muhammad(p) was following the Torah’s punishment as this part of the Qur’an had not been revealed yet or…

 

Leviticus 20

10 "If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death.

 

(3) its possible this woman was executed for a combination of additional crimes.

 

 

 

NiceBlueIce: A woman who covers her head to give an appearance of modesty is doing nothing more then giving a false perception of self.

 

RKC: According to who?

 

Islam 101: My Body is my own Business

 

 

 

NiceBlueIce: Clothes dont make you anymore modest then does being naked. If you are modest you are modest inside regardless if you have your clothes on or not.

 

RKC: A modest woman will want to dress modestly. She wouldn’t want to walk around naked. Like you said, “It’s the actions that tell us the truth about the person”.