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RKC: Based on the below the Holy Spirit is unlikely. (Message #608)
Mark: Sorry, but Christian historians down through the years call you a liar and in error for they all knew that thhis was the Holy Spirit.
RKC: That fine. Baseless accusations and personal attacks don’t bother me.
002.111
And they say: "None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian." Those are their (vain) desires. Say: "Produce your proof if ye are truthful."
021.024
Or have they taken for worship (other) gods besides him? Say, "Bring your convincing proof: this is the Message of those with me and the Message of those before
me." But most of them know not the Truth, and so turn away.
RKC: 1. The Deut 18:18 can't apply to Jesus (John 1:19-21), so it must be fulfilled after Jesus left this Earth. (Message #608)
Mark: Duet 18:18 "I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall
speak unto them all that I shall command him."
RKC: Again here are verses from the Bible.
Deuteronomy 18:18-20
18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brethren; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him.
19 And whoever will not give heed to my words which he shall speak in my name, I myself will require it of him.
20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same
prophet shall die.'
John 1:19-21
19 And this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, "Who are you?"
20 He confessed, he did not deny, but confessed, "I am not the Christ."
21 And they asked him, "What then? Are you Elijah?" He said, "I am not." "Are you the prophet?" And he answered, "No."
RKC: Its clear there were 3 prophecies which these men were looking to be fulfilled. Elijah….The Annointed…and The Prophet. Jesus (who is
the Messiah) cannot be the Prophet anymore than he can be Elijah. If the Prophet had come already, Jesus would have said so. (Mt. 17:12). If
you insist on applying this prophecy to the tribe of Judah, that’s fine…but in light of John 1:19-21, it doesn’t apply to Jesus.
Mark: *** The word bretheren was the Hebrew word brother, brother of same parents, half-brother (same father) ,relative, kinship, same tribe ,
each to the other (reciprocal relationship) , (fig.) of resemblance.
So you see the 'bretheren' to the tribe of Levi MUST by definition have been one of the other tribes of Isreal. Without going into unnecessary
detail, we know the specific tribe was Judah from which arose Jesus. Sorry not only do you distort scriptural definitions, you take then out of
context. This makes the rest of your post a mistake and a waste of time.
RKC: Your definition of brethern is incomplete. Either you don’t know the scope of how this word is used in the Bible or your being very
selective to come to the conclusion you want. Either way…for this to be the defining piece of this prophecy is careless.
Brethern is translated from the Hebrew word “ach”. Strong’s Concordance says the below…
“a brother (used in the widest sense of lit. relationship & metaph. affinity or resemblance…”
Strongs gives the below example of the use of this word.
1. To refer to a male sibling:
Genesis 4:2
2 And again, she bore his brother Abel. Now Abel was a keeper of sheep, and Cain a tiller of the ground.
2. To refer to a male sibling (half-brother):
Genesis 37:14
14 So he said to him, "Go now, see if it is well with your brothers, and with the flock; and bring me word again." So he sent him from the valley of Hebron, and he
came to Shechem.
3. To refer to a blood relative:
Genesis 14:16
16 Then he brought back all the goods, and also brought back his kinsman (ach) Lot with his goods, and the women and the people.
4. To refer to a relative:
Genesis 9:25
25 he said, "Cursed be Canaan; a slave of slaves shall he be to his brothers."
Genesis 29:15
15 Then Laban said to Jacob, "Because you are my kinsman (ach), should you therefore serve me for nothing? Tell me, what shall your wages be?"
5. To refer to tribes:
Judges 1:3
3 And Judah said to Simeon his brother, "Come up with me into the territory allotted to me, that we may fight against the Canaanites; and I likewise will go with
you into the territory allotted to you." So Simeon went with him.
6. To refer to fellow tribesman:
Genesis 31:32
32 Any one with whom you find your gods shall not live. In the presence of our kinsmen (ach) point out what I have that is yours, and take it." Now Jacob did not
know that Rachel had stolen them.
7. To refer to fellow countrymen:
Exodus 2:11
11 One day, when Moses had grown up, he went out to his people (ach) and looked on their burdens; and he saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew, one of his people.
8. To refer to a companion/colleague:
2 Kings 9:2
2 And when you arrive, look there for Jehu the son of Jehosh'aphat, son of Nimshi; and go in and bid him rise from among his fellows (ach), and lead him to an
inner chamber.
9. To refer to an ally:
Genesis 19:6-7
6 Lot went out of the door to the men, shut the door after him,
7 and said, "I beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly.
Numbers 20:14
14 Moses sent messengers from Kadesh to the king of Edom, "Thus says your brother Israel: You know all the adversity that has befallen us:
1 Kings 9:13
13 Therefore he said, "What kind of cities are these which you have given me, my brother?" So they are called the land of Cabul to this day.
10. A term of polite address to a stranger:
Genesis 29:4
4 Jacob said to them, "My brothers, where do you come from?" They said, "We are from Haran."
11. Sometimes represents someone or something that simply exists alongside a given person or thing:
Genesis 9:5-6
5 For your lifeblood I will surely require a reckoning; of every beast I will require it and of man; of every man's brother I will require the life of man.
6 Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for God made man in his own image.
Mark: Sorry, but Christian historians down through the years call you a liar and in error for they all knew that thhis was the Holy Spirit.
RKC: That fine. Baseless accusations and personal attacks don’t bother me.
002.111
And they say: "None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian." Those are their (vain) desires. Say: "Produce your proof if ye are truthful."
021.024
Or have they taken for worship (other) gods besides him? Say, "Bring your convincing proof: this is the Message of those with me and the Message of those before
me." But most of them know not the Truth, and so turn away.
RKC: 1. The Deut 18:18 can't apply to Jesus (John 1:19-21), so it must be fulfilled after Jesus left this Earth. (Message #608)
Mark: Duet 18:18 "I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall
speak unto them all that I shall command him."
RKC: Again here are verses from the Bible.
Deuteronomy 18:18-20
18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brethren; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him.
19 And whoever will not give heed to my words which he shall speak in my name, I myself will require it of him.
20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same
prophet shall die.'
John 1:19-21
19 And this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, "Who are you?"
20 He confessed, he did not deny, but confessed, "I am not the Christ."
21 And they asked him, "What then? Are you Elijah?" He said, "I am not." "Are you the prophet?" And he answered, "No."
RKC: Its clear there were 3 prophecies which these men were looking to be fulfilled. Elijah….The Annointed…and The Prophet. Jesus (who is
the Messiah) cannot be the Prophet anymore than he can be Elijah. If the Prophet had come already, Jesus would have said so. (Mt. 17:12). If
you insist on applying this prophecy to the tribe of Judah, that’s fine…but in light of John 1:19-21, it doesn’t apply to Jesus.
Mark: *** The word bretheren was the Hebrew word brother, brother of same parents, half-brother (same father) ,relative, kinship, same tribe ,
each to the other (reciprocal relationship) , (fig.) of resemblance.
So you see the 'bretheren' to the tribe of Levi MUST by definition have been one of the other tribes of Isreal. Without going into unnecessary
detail, we know the specific tribe was Judah from which arose Jesus. Sorry not only do you distort scriptural definitions, you take then out of
context. This makes the rest of your post a mistake and a waste of time.
RKC: Your definition of brethern is incomplete. Either you don’t know the scope of how this word is used in the Bible or your being very
selective to come to the conclusion you want. Either way…for this to be the defining piece of this prophecy is careless.
Brethern is translated from the Hebrew word “ach”. Strong’s Concordance says the below…
“a brother (used in the widest sense of lit. relationship & metaph. affinity or resemblance…”
Strongs gives the below example of the use of this word.
1. To refer to a male sibling:
Genesis 4:2
2 And again, she bore his brother Abel. Now Abel was a keeper of sheep, and Cain a tiller of the ground.
2. To refer to a male sibling (half-brother):
Genesis 37:14
14 So he said to him, "Go now, see if it is well with your brothers, and with the flock; and bring me word again." So he sent him from the valley of Hebron, and he
came to Shechem.
3. To refer to a blood relative:
Genesis 14:16
16 Then he brought back all the goods, and also brought back his kinsman (ach) Lot with his goods, and the women and the people.
4. To refer to a relative:
Genesis 9:25
25 he said, "Cursed be Canaan; a slave of slaves shall he be to his brothers."
Genesis 29:15
15 Then Laban said to Jacob, "Because you are my kinsman (ach), should you therefore serve me for nothing? Tell me, what shall your wages be?"
5. To refer to tribes:
Judges 1:3
3 And Judah said to Simeon his brother, "Come up with me into the territory allotted to me, that we may fight against the Canaanites; and I likewise will go with
you into the territory allotted to you." So Simeon went with him.
6. To refer to fellow tribesman:
Genesis 31:32
32 Any one with whom you find your gods shall not live. In the presence of our kinsmen (ach) point out what I have that is yours, and take it." Now Jacob did not
know that Rachel had stolen them.
7. To refer to fellow countrymen:
Exodus 2:11
11 One day, when Moses had grown up, he went out to his people (ach) and looked on their burdens; and he saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew, one of his people.
8. To refer to a companion/colleague:
2 Kings 9:2
2 And when you arrive, look there for Jehu the son of Jehosh'aphat, son of Nimshi; and go in and bid him rise from among his fellows (ach), and lead him to an
inner chamber.
9. To refer to an ally:
Genesis 19:6-7
6 Lot went out of the door to the men, shut the door after him,
7 and said, "I beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly.
Numbers 20:14
14 Moses sent messengers from Kadesh to the king of Edom, "Thus says your brother Israel: You know all the adversity that has befallen us:
1 Kings 9:13
13 Therefore he said, "What kind of cities are these which you have given me, my brother?" So they are called the land of Cabul to this day.
10. A term of polite address to a stranger:
Genesis 29:4
4 Jacob said to them, "My brothers, where do you come from?" They said, "We are from Haran."
11. Sometimes represents someone or something that simply exists alongside a given person or thing:
Genesis 9:5-6
5 For your lifeblood I will surely require a reckoning; of every beast I will require it and of man; of every man's brother I will require the life of man.
6 Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for God made man in his own image.