© Copyright 2007-2008 The Straight Path
Posted by: "Zaid Shakur" zaid_shakur@yahoo.com   zaid_shakur
Sun May 27, 2007 4:29 pm (PST)

I am not justifying what the Janjaweed do based on the fact that they are black, but my point was to end the zionist-created fallacy that poor
black-skinned Darfurians are being murdered due to the color of their skin. This is the lie that you imply every time you mention race. Even the
so-called Arab Sudanese are black skinned. And just about everyone in Sudan speaks Arabic to some greater or lesser degree.

This is a civil war, 'Aysha". Civil wars have nothing necessarily to do with Islam as you would try to make us believe. I am an American, born and
raised, and I'll let you know a little secret---we had a civil war, too. The bloodiest war in America's bloody history. American Vs. American. So can
you blame the American Civil War on Islam, too? I don't deny the tragedy transpiring in Sudan, but what has it got to do with Islam? Civil Wars
Happen everywhere. You can never prove any tie between this Sudanese Civil War and the teachings of Islam any more than you can tie the
Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor to the philosophies of Buddhism.

In fact, far from denying the genocide in Darfur, or just debating aimlessly about it on the internet like some, I have actually founded a group of
MUSLIMS dedicated to raising awareness of the crisis and to provide humanitarian help. So your argument of denial on the part of all Muslims is
also proven untrue. I suggest you form a similar group for proud, freedom-loving immigrant Americans like yourself and put your righteous
indignation to productive use.

And once again you hate it when I bring up the "attrocities" of other religions and cultures because it totally obliterates your argument that
adherents of ISLAM are the only religious adherents prone to ugly mistakes and reprehensible misdeeds. This is, after all, your entire argument.
But I and everyone else on this listserv can prove it untrue by simply mentioning the behavior of just a few non-Muslim nations and peoples. It
doesn't justify the ugly behavior of Muslims---it simply clears Islam from being the religious or ideological source of those ugly acts.

Who committed the Jewish Holocaust? Christians. Who executed the bloody Spanish Inquisition against Jews and Muslims? Christians. Who
destroyed the Mosque in Babria India? Hindus. Who was arrested in December 2001 for plotting to bomb a Los Angeles area Mosque? Jews. Who
are torching Churches today in India? Hindus. Who intentionally infected the Native American people with syphillis, killed over 50 million
Africans in the Atlantic Slave Trade, and as recently as 1982 refused to give American women constitutionally guaranteed equal rights? Christians.
And yes, who blew up Buddhist statues in Afghanistan--Muslim fanatics! The common demoninator in all acts of human barbarism is not Islam--it's
not even religion (check out what the Communists did in Russia)--the common demoninator is MAN HIMSELF. MANKIND and its tendency
towards evil. MANKIND that seems constantly to look for and use any religion, philosophy or ideology to support his savagery. Mankind should
be the focus of your blame games--not religion at all.

The fortunes of people and cultures rise and fall. Today the Muslim world--like nearly every other nation that has been invaded, colonized,
economically exploited and raped for natural resources by the ruling Chrisitan powers--has got some serious issues, granted. All of your
Islamophobic cyber postings will in no way hasten the renassaince of the Muslim world. The self-serving interference of western powers in the
affairs of the Muslim world will not hasten it, either---in fact it will continue to bog it down as it has in Iraq.

Sure China makes nice consumer goods--there's over 200 million Muslims in China, too. Sure, India has great computer programmers--my Muslim
friend is one of them. One of 180 million Indian Muslims.

But just remember that during the Dark Ages, Christian Europe was a wasteland under the boot of medieval Christian tyranny and ridden with
plaugue, illiteracy, supersitition and war--it was the Islamic State of Andulucia, with its unparalleled culture of art, science, literature, advanced
medicine and world-renowned universities that actually civilized the rest of Europe and re-introduced them to the enlightment of knowledge. It is
Muslim science and Islamic scholarship that is the basis for almost every invention and advancement of the modern digital era.

The Jihad to reclaim this legacy has begun, whether the enemies of Islam like it or not.




Aysha Ahmed <ayshapatel1@...> wrote:

Your assumption that I am an American born white man is wrong. I grew up in a place where so called religious fanatics and the guns are the most
powerful.I came to America, and I love my new found freedom, and I feel sorry for those who are left behind in my native homelands, who are
still enslaved by traditions, corruptions and religious backwardness.

You can try to justify what's going on in Dafur today by saying that the Janaweeds are also black, and that's why it is acceptable for black to kill
other blacks, and it has nothing to do with islam. You can try to blame the media or the UN, you can try to bring up the past attrocities in other
cultures and religions, but don't try to deny that what's happening in Dafur today is just another example that shows the ruthlessness of islam. It
began with the first gang that mohamed gathered, and , with the quran in one hand and the sword on the other hand, they marched, burned,
killed, raped, stole their way across the pan arabia peninsula, to the indian subcontinent. The people of Pakistan and Afghanistan are mostly
decendents of Arab soldiers, who killed all native men and raped native women. The arab army destroyed all cultures on their path. Who blew up
the statutes of Bhuddas in Afghanistan? Aren't they muslims? Who are still blowing up churches, temples and killing those who have different
faiths?

Every terrorist that blow themselves up so they can kill other people do that in the name of allah and mohamed. In many muslim countries, the
best way to gain social status in a muslim country is to learn how to recite the qran and not to learn math or science.
While Japan makes the world's best automobiles, while China makes the best consumer goods, while India produces the best computer
programmers, muslim countries produce the best car bombers, the best way to hang people, the best way to oppress women.

Would you like to see your sister or your mom living in Dafur, and go through incidents like this:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070527/ap_on_re_mi_ea/darfur_s_misery




Zaid Shakur <zaid_shakur@...> wrote:

First of all you'll have to prove to this forum the difference between what you call the so-called 'blacks' of Sudan and the so-called "Arabs' of
Sudan. Obviously you've never been to Sudan. And since obviously you've never seen a photo of a Janjaweed militiamen, or the very BLACK
PRESIDENT OF Sudan, your allegations, along with the zionist-loving media, are false and irrelevant.

I mention the crimes of the US and the Western imperialists to illustrate that it is the evil tendency in man, not any specific religion, that causes
violence and aggression. Another reason I love to mention it is because your types obsess on the mistakes of others to distract from your
blemished past and to irradicate your own feelings of guilt and shame.

Don't you recall the US doctirne of 'Manifest Destiny' that was the justification used to ehtnically cleanse the Native inhabitants of North America?
Don't you recall that Spaniards decimated the native inhabitants in South and Central America in the name of Christian missionary work and
'civilizaing the savages?' They STOLE the very land you were born on from the native inhabitants, much the same way the Jews have usurped the
land of the Palestinian people. Don't you remember how the US has killed over 15 million humans in the name of 'spreading democracy'?

You and US policy makers hide behind colorful slogans, lofty rhetoric and patriotic ephemisms. At least the Arabs, as you claim, call a spade a
spade. It's time we get honest with ourselves in order to continue any type of meaningful dialogue.




Aysha Ahmed <ayshapatel1@...> wrote:

Welcome back, brother Zaid. If you don't see that the follwing link is a proof of the continuous agression of arabs against no arab, specially against
black people, I don't know what else can

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070526/ap_on_re_af/darfur_s_killing_fields

I am surprised that you once against use the us to justify the ruthlessness of the arab agression on humanity. It is true that there are many wars in
the US history, but the US did not, has not, does not and will not have any intention to dominate or to conquer any of the countries that you
mention, while the arabs don't even try to hide their intention to islamize, muslimize and arabize the whole world.

US vs UK: What's wrong with fighting to be independent?

US vs Mexico: Show me one Mexican that don't wish to be an American citizen, and I can show you 1000 other Mexican risk their life to go across
the border and dream of having American citizenship.

US vs. Vietnam, Panama, Japan....? Every single of those countries are close friends of America after the past conflict. Show me one of those
countries that is enslaved by American today, and I can show you 10 countries that are destroyed, enslaved and arabized by the arabs.

I suggest that you talk to black people from Dafur and hear their own stories of how ruthless arabs are, and how islam is helping black people,




Zaid Shakur <zaid_shakur@...> wrote:

Don't worry about Jo. He is so obsessed with the conflicts of Muslims that he enters into an almost psychotic state of denial when it is shown to
him that the history of all of mankind is one of perpetual violence.

Lets take, for instance, the Christian West--- US vs England, US vs. Mexico, US vs. Spain, US vs. Germany, US vs. Cuba, US vs Japan, US vs. Korea,
US vs Vietnam, US vs. Panama, US vs. Iraq, US vs. Soviet Union, US vs. Afghanistan, US vs.....it goes on and on. And this is only the YOUNGEST
of the so-called, free, democractic, peace-loving Western nations. Should I go into a brief summary of violence committed by the UK? France?

Jo's arguments are and have always been empty, uninformed tirades. I wish there was an intelligent Islamophobe on this listserv with whom I
could exchange ideas.